Legislature(1993 - 1994)
04/21/1993 03:40 PM Senate RES
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SENATE RESOURCES COMMITTEE
April 21, 1993
3:40 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Senator Mike Miller, Chairman
Senator Loren Leman, Vice Chairman
Senator Steve Frank
Senator Drue Pearce
Senator Fred Zharoff
Senator Dave Donley
MEMBERS ABSENT
Senator Al Adams
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 18
Relating to establishment of a fishing community at Adak.
HOUSE BILL NO. 76
"An Act making a special appropriation to the Department of
Natural Resources for the purchase of the inholdings of the
Seldovia Native Association and the Cook Inlet Region, Inc.,
and the timber rights of the Timber Trading Company, within
the Kachemak Bay State Park; and providing for an effective
date."
HOUSE CONCURRENT RESOLUTION NO. 18
Relating to Federal Public Land Week.
HOUSE BILL NO. 148
"An Act exempting the University of Alaska from the
administrative adjudication provisions of the Administrative
Procedure Act; and providing for an effective date."
CS FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 213(RES)(title am)
"An Act prohibiting the commissioner of natural resources from
permanently classifying state land, water, or land and water
so that mining, mineral entry and location, mineral
prospecting, and mineral leasing are precluded or are
designated an incompatible use without an act of the
legislature if the area involved contains more than 640
contiguous acres except in certain situations; and providing
for an effective date."
SENATE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 33
Relating to the development of the Windy Craggy ore deposit.
PREVIOUS SENATE COMMITTEE ACTION
HB 76 - See Resources minutes dated 4/21/93.
HJR 18 - See Resources minutes dated 3/31/93 and 4/21/93.
HB 148 - See HESS minutes dated 4/16/93. See State Affairs
minutes dated 4/21/93. See Resources minutes dated 4/21/93.
HB 213 - See Resources minutes dated 4/14/93 and 4/21/93.
SJR 33 - See Resources minutes dated 4/21/93.
WITNESS REGISTER
Jeff Logan, Legislative Aide
%Representative Joe Green
State Capitol
Juneau, Alaska 99811-1182
POSITION STATEMENT: Sponsor of HJR 18.
Representative Gail Phillips
State Capitol
Juneau, Alaska 99811-1182
POSITION STATEMENT: Sponsor of HB 76.
Christina Erhart
Alaska Environmental Lobby
P.O. Box 82126
Fairbanks, Alaska 99708
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported HB 76.
Steve Borrel, Executive Director
Alaska Miners Association
501 W. Northern Lights
Anchorage, Alaska 99801
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SJR 33.
Tim June
P.O. Box 672
Haines, Alaska 99827
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed SJR 33.
Ginny Hill Wood
1819 Muskox Trail
Fairbanks, Alaska 99709
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed SJR 33.
Skip Ryman
P.O. Box 1086
Yakutat, Alaska 99827
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed SJR 33.
Peter Enticknap
P.O. Box 1086
Haines, Alaska 99827
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed SJR 33.
Celia Hunter
1819 Muskox Trail
Fairbanks, Alaska 99709
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed SJR 33.
Daryl James, Mayor
City of Yakutat
P.O. Box 411
Yakutat, Alaska 99689
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed SJR 33.
Gershon Cohen
P.O. Box 956
Haines, Alaska 99827
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed SJR 33.
Patricia Blank
P.O. Box 112
Haines, Alaska 99827
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed SJR 33.
Sean McGuire
351 Cloudberry
Fairbanks, Alaska 99709
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed SJR 33.
Nicholas Cassara
P.O. Box 1023
Haines, Alaska 99827
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed SJR 33.
Craig Swanson
P.O. Box 211
Yakutat, Alaska 99689
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed SJR 33.
Jack Endicott, Chairman
Planning and Zoning Commission
P.O. Box 314
Yakutat, Alaska 99689
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed SJR 33.
Robyn Cassara
P.O. Box 1023
Haines, Alaska 99827
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed SJR 33.
Katya Kirsch
Alaska Environmental Lobby
P.O. Box 521
Haines, Alaska 99877
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed SJR 33.
Dick Swainbank
Minerals Development
Division of Economic Development
Department of Commerce and Economic Development
1001 Noble Street, Suite 360
Fairbanks, Alaska 99701-4948
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SJR 33.
Kerry Adler
On-Line Exploration Service
8508 Boundary, #5
Anchorage, Alaska 99504
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SJR 33.
Jim Adler
On-Line Exploration Services
11976 Wilderness Dr.
Anchorage, Alaska 99516
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SJR 33.
Pamela Brodie
Sierra Club
241 E. 5th Ave., #205
Anchorage, Alaska 99501
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed SJR 33.
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 93-21, SIDE A
Number 001
SENATOR MILLER called the Resources Committee meeting to order
at 3:40 p.m. and announced HJR 18 (ESTABLISH FISHING COMMUNITY
AT ADAK) to be up for consideration.
JEFF LOGAN, Legislative Aide for Representative Green,
explained the resolution.
SENATOR MILLER stated HJR 18 would be held until the committee
established a quorum.
SENATOR MILLER announced HB 76 (APPROP: KACHEMAK BAY ST.
PK.TIMBER RIGHTS) to be up for consideration.
REPRESENTATIVE GAIL PHILLIPS briefly explained the bill.
CHRISTINA ERHART, Alaska Environmental Lobby, supported HB 76.
SENATOR MILLER called an at ease from 3:50 - 4:15 p.m.
SENATOR LEMAN moved to discharge HB 76 from committee with
individual recommendations. There were no objections and it
was so ordered.
Number 196
SENATOR MILLER announced HJR 18 (ESTABLISH FISHING COMMUNITY
AT ADAK) to be up for consideration.
SENATOR LEMAN moved to discharge HJR 18 from committee with
individual recommendations. There were no objections and it
was so ordered.
SENATOR MILLER announced HB 148 EXEMPT U OF AK FROM APA
PROCEDURES to be up for consideration.
Number 200
SENATOR LEMAN moved to discharge HB 148 from committee with
individual recommendations. There were no objections and it
was so ordered.
SENATOR MILLER announced HJR 28 (SUPPORT KANTISHNA AREA
TOURISM DEVELOP'T) to be up for consideration.
SENATOR LEMAN moved to discharge HJR 28 from committee with
individual recommendations. There were no objections and it
was so ordered.
SENATOR MILLER announced HB 213 (LIMIT ADMINISTRATIVE LAND
CLOSURES) to be up for consideration.
JACK PHELPS, Legislative Aide for Representative Kott,
explained the bill.
SENATOR LEMAN moved to adopt the CSHB 213(RES). There were
no objections and it was so ordered.
SENATOR LEMAN moved to discharge CSHB 213(RES) from committee
with individual recommendations. There were no objections and
it was so ordered.
Number 245
SENATOR MILLER announced a confirmation hearing for Governor
appointees Susan Entsminger, Tok, to the Board of Game and
Scott Ogan, Palmer, to the Big Game Commercial Services Board.
There were no stated objections to either Ms. Entsminger or
Mr. Ogan.
SENATOR MILLER announced SJR 33 (DEVELOPMENT OF WINDY CRAGGY
ORE DEPOSIT) to be up for consideration.
STEVE BORREL, Executive Director, Alaska Miners Association,
supported SJR 33 explaining the mine would bring many jobs to
Haines and maybe to Yakutat, as well.
Number 323
SKIP RYMAN, Yakutat, opposed SJR 33 because it would not
provide jobs for Alaskans and would pollute the environment.
PETER ENTICKNAP, Haines, opposed SJR 33 because sulfuric acid
drainage from the mine would sterilize any water it went into
forever.
CELIA HUNTER, Fairbanks, said Haines has high quality, scenic
wilderness and the Windy Craggy would contaminate the port
area. She said there was no proof of environmental
responsibility.
Number 451
DARYL JAMES, Mayor of Yakutat, opposed the Windy Craggy mine
development because it would endanger the fisheries and there
would be no real economic benefit.
GERSHON COHEN, Haines, opposed SJR 33 and mentioned that the
Windy Craggy mine would bring only 25 jobs to Haines and the
rest would go to Canadians. He opposed the bill, because
sulfuric acid drainage from the mine would seriously pollute
the Chilkat river which supports the substantial Chilkat Eagle
Preserve as well as other significant wilderness resources -
all of which are renewable and support the tourism industry.
TIM JUNE, Haines commercial fisherman, opposed SJR 33, because
it would put the Haines $41 million fishery and the $16
million per year Yakutat fishery at risk. Storing mine
tailings on a glacier that drains into the Alsek River
drainage area would endanger the Alsek River as well as the
Tatshenshini River. He urged the committee to consider the
fact that fishing was a renewable resource and mining would
basically be leaching sulfuric acid practically forever.
GINNY HILL WOOD, Fairbanks, said she was in the tourism and
outdoor adventure business, opposed SJR 33. She said the
money she makes with her business goes to Alaskan residents.
She said the Tatshenshini River is one of the most beautiful
in the world. If the mine goes in, it will be one of the
largest open pit mines in the world and no one is sure how
it's going to work environmentally. She noted that the
tourist potential will go on indefinitely. She said the
particular site of the proposed mine has very strong
earthquake hazards.
She thought the idea of a mine was silly if you take into
account the impact on the local communities, fisheries, and
wildlife.
PATRICIA BLANK, Haines, read the committee an excerpt from an
article written by Herman Daily, a World Bank economist.
TAPE 93-21, SIDE B
Number 580
Sustainable growth is unrealistic, he says. She urged the
committee to read reports done by the National Marine
Fisheries, the U.S. Department of Commerce, the U.S.
Environmental Protection Agency, the Ministry of Environment,
the Canadian Federal Government, British Columbia Commission
on Resources and the Environment, and the British Columbia
Ministry of Mines before making a decision. All of these
reports say the Windy Craggy is an extremely dangerous and
unproven concept.
Number 572
SEAN MCGUIRE, Fairbanks, said the Tatshenshini and Alsek
Rivers are our crown jewels. As time goes by, he said,
wilderness is becoming immensely valuable. People from all
over the world are coming to see our wilderness. Eco-tourism
is absolutely booming.
Number 547
NICHOLAS CASSARA, Haines resident, said there was no economic
stability for Haines with this mine, because copper prices are
dropping and demand for copper going into the next century is
getting to be less and less as copper is being recycled more.
He said it would not provide work for Haines and would ruin
the industries they are working to develop.
Number 517
CRAIG SWANSON, Yakutat Borough Assembly member, said SJR 33
would have a detrimental affect on the commercial fisheries,
sport fisheries, tourism, and subsistence. Any amount of
economic benefit to Yakutat would be seriously overridden by
the serious habitat degradation caused by the Windy Craggy
mine in the future.
Number 490
JACK ENDICOTT, Chairman of the Planning and Zoning Commission
in Yakutat, said he sat through the Windy Craggy mining
presentation and couldn't see any real scientific evidence
that the earth and tailings dam holding all the toxic
materials would not eventually fail. Windy Craggy is also in
a very active earthquake zone, he noted. He reiterated that
eventually the dams would fail and the environmental loss
would be catastrophic and would by far outweigh any economic
benefits it might provide. He strongly opposed SJR 33.
Number 476
SENATOR LEMAN asked him if his analysis of the likelihood of
the failure of the earthen dam was based on any engineering
reports or any particular background. MR. ENDICOTT said his
background was with the National Weather Service and he knows
of the variations in climate and from the presentation he knew
it would not last for eternity.
Number 464
MR. ENTICKNAP, Haines, said he had read the Canadian
government's environmental report on this project and they
identified 86 significant environmental risks. They did not
identify risks that would impact the U.S. per se, but the
primary risk was the failure of the earth and tailings dam.
Based on the risk analysis, he said they could expect to see
destruction of fish habitat and the death of salmon occurring
every twelve years.
MR. ENTICKNAP said he had a letter from the President of the
ANB/ANF which he wanted entered into the record opposing this
project.
Number 445
ROBYN CASSARA, Haines resident employed by Chilkat Guides,
opposed SJR 33 saying impact of the mine's development on the
environment might jeopardize the guiding business and, thus,
her livelihood.
Number 430
KATYA KIRSCH, Alaska Environmental Lobby and Haines resident,
said the citizens of Haines do not want to see copper or
mining chemicals from the Windy Craggy mine transported
through Haines. Haines currently has one of the healthiest
wild salmon fisheries in southeast Alaska. Copper ore and
toxic chemicals entering waters would put the fisheries at
risk. Skagway is an example of this already happening.
Acid mine drainage risk is severe with the Windy Craggy, she
said. It could very well devastate the Alsek and Tatshenshini
Rivers which flow into the U.S. Glacier Bay National Park.
She also noted the high risk of earthquakes.
Numerous agencies have seen enormous problems associated with
development of the Windy Craggy copper mine - the National
Marine Fisheries Service, the U.S. Environmental Protection
Agency, the U.S. Park Service, the U.S. Fish and Wildlife
Service, the British Columbia Commission on Resources and the
Environment, and the British Columbia Ministry of Mines.
Number 404
DICK SWAINBANK, Department of Commerce and Economic
Development, supported SJR 33. The ore deposit, itself, is
extremely rich, about 4 times the average grade of the average
copper mine. From all the information he has, the price of
copper is forecast to be stable or to increase. The large
Canadian copper mines are beginning to be depleted. The Windy
Craggy mine would pick up the slack. He said the Canadian
government is only in the first phase of developing the mine,
at this point.
MR. SWAINBANK explained about 25 million tons of silt is going
down the Tatshenshini and into the Alsek. Within that amount
there is conservatively estimated about a 1,000 tons of each:
copper, cobalt, chromium, lead, and zinc. This is a natural
process that has been going on since at least the end of the
glaciatian. It will continue to go on whether the mine is
there or not.
He said the area is not the most seismically active area by
any means. In his opinion, the mine could be developed
responsibly, particularly given the high grade ore. This
added value would give the company more financial flexibility
to deal effectively with the environmental issues.
MR. SWAINBANK said Wrangell had a considerable amount of
aircraft for servicing the mines in the Golden Triangle which
brought in about $2.53 million in revenues.
If Haines doesn't want the mine, there are other ways for
Canada to get the ore to tidewater and to the market without
even touching Alaska. But then we would have no control over
it. MR. SWAINBANK said he thought the mine could be developed
safely.
SENATOR ZHAROFF said he could understand the people's concern
with the safety of the environment and the quality of salmon
with a developing mine. The potential of a dam breaking and
of the toxins going into anadromous streams would have an
impact with the sale of our seafood world wide - pretty much
like the Exxon Valdez incident.
Number 236
KERRY ADLER, On-Line Exploration Service, said he had over 20
years experience in mining and minerals exploration. He said
the mining industry was improving its technologies;
specifically mentioning capturing leaches off of old tailings.
He noted that the Kennicott mine tailings were never impounded
and there is still acid leaching going on and he still hadn't
seen any detrimental effect on the Copper River fisheries.
MR. ADLER said Alaska is a resource development state like
some parts of Canada. Because of Canada's economic situation,
he thought they would hungrily pursue development of the mine.
Furthermore, he said, we have a unique opportunity to extract
some economic benefit from the mine simply because of its
location.
Number 172
SENATOR LEMAN asked if he had studied the affect of the
leaching on the PH of the watershed. MR. ADLER said he didn't
have any studies on the rivers, but that base data should be
obtainable as part of the mine permitting processes.
Number 148
JIM ADLER supported SJR 33 which supported the environmental
laws that a mining operation has to have. He said four
government agencies would get to thoroughly review the project
- British Columbia, Canada, Alaska and the U.S. federal
governments.
MR. ADLER emphasized that we needed to look at diversifying
our economic base.
He said that commercial fishermen need work, too, because of
the unstable fish market.
SENATOR ZHAROFF asked him if he was one of the mineral
consultants. MR. ADLER said he was, but he had no connection
with this property.
PAMELA BRODIE, Sierra Club, opposed SJR 33. She supported the
reasons all the people from Haines had for not developing the
mine. She said that heavy metals do not degrade.
SENATOR LEMAN said that heavy metals chelate, and while he
didn't pretend to understand this process, he would be
surprised if there weren't a number of answers to the
technical concerns to make the tailing deposit less offensive.
TAPE 93-23, SIDE A
Number 001
SENATOR TAYLOR said that Juneau has a lot of mine tailings and
the fish here aren't polluted. He said he was trying to
figure out the severity of the problem when 28,000 people were
happily and healthily living in this "polluted area."
SENATOR ZHAROFF and SENATOR TAYLOR discussed the environmental
issue a bit further.
SENATOR MILLER adjourned the meeting at 5:25 p.m.
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